Thunderbirds legend Gerry Anderson: "I never grow up – it’s as simple as that"

I had the good fortune to meet Gerry Anderson three times.

Firstly, at the Anderfan Minicon in 1981, which preceded the formation of Fanderson, secondly, at the Pinewood Studios unveiling of Space Precinct in 1994, and thirdly – the subject of this interview – when he was launching New Captain Scarlet.

Gerry was always unfailingly polite, personable and generous with his time, but in 2005 I found him candid, too, and more reflective. A small article including a few of these quotes appeared in Radio Times that year, but this, much longer Q&A has never been published by RT before.

Captain Scarlet is a much-loved series from your portfolio. In bringing the show up to date, what was it important for you to preserve, and what to change?

Can we start by saying I’m not a big head, but some of these questions I have to answer and unfortunately it sounds as if I am…

You don’t come across that way…

Oh good! The original show I thought was a very good format, so we didn’t need to monkey around with that too much, but the failings were that the action was very limited because of the puppets. And equally, the stories had to be tailored to what the puppets could achieve, or – to be more accurate – to what we could make the puppets look as if they were achieving.

But the point is that time has moved on. It’s all too easy to fall behind the times and my shows are dealing with the future. So what I’ve done is, I’ve taken for example women’s position today but pushed it forward.

The original – one of a string of hits for you and your then wife Sylvia – was one of your darker shows. Do you intend to keep that dark atmosphere?

This is a very difficult subject and I can only tell you what I try to achieve. It’s for the audience to tell me what I’ve achieved. I know from my own experience, and people have talked to me about it over the years, that young kiddies can hide behind the couch if things get a bit frightening, but try turning the television set off and there will be ructions!

So I’ve got my own code. My own code is unlike television today: we don’t use any so-called strong language; we do not take any nationality and turn them into the baddies (it’s not my ambition to turn people against any other country or religion); and I’d like to think the shows are wholesome.

They never did me any harm.

I’ve only got your word for that!

Does computer-game technology have an influence on the look of the programme?

No. Computer-game technology is nothing short of fantastic. But it’s a different type of animation entirely to what we do. Basically the reason is that computer games have to be rendered in real time, so that makes it very very difficult for them. And I think what they achieve is remarkable. But we haven’t learnt anything from them and I’m sure they haven’t learnt anything from us either. It’s a totally different field.

CGI is developing at the rate of knots. What would you say is revolutionary or innovative about this series? What is hyper about the marionation, if you will?

Well, forget feature films where they have five years to make them, I’m not aware of any other CGI television series that exists or is being made or is being planned that comes anywhere near this. Sony – who are distributing the series throughout the world excluding the UK and Ireland, which is Granada – their comment was that what sets this show apart from every other CGI show is the performances of the actors – the emotional performances – and more so as the shows go on. And the voice artists are brilliant.

Some of the faces look like they have a bit of a sheen on them, and it reminded me, for a split second, of the puppets. Was that deliberate?

Well, a lot of people do have a sheen on their skin, particularly bald men! But I remember on the puppet films we used to take our thumb, rub our nose picking up grease, and then wipe that onto the cheek to give that slight shiny look.

Is this the most expensive children’s show?

It must be. I can’t think of any other show that’s being made for £25 million. I haven’t been round on a lightning tour of every television station in the world but as far as I’m aware, it is the most expensive, and I also think the best… One or two people have said, “Why didn’t you do it in live action?” and there are several reasons.

First of all, in live action we would not be able to put the action in that we have in this show. But the other important thing is that we would not have been able to create the characters as they are. We’d have to scour the world and find somebody who looked like Destiny [for example] and they’d have to be good actors, and they have to be available for the show. In a way, not to generalise but for us, it’s better than live action because we’re able to bring these characters to life.

Did I read somewhere that Francis Matthews auditioned for New Captain Scarlet?

Well, I wouldn’t insult dear old Francis by saying we auditioned him. I mean, like me, the years are mounting up and if my voice goes a bit peculiar it doesn’t matter but of course with his, it does. And all we did is, we got him down to record a test to see whether he would come across as a young man. And it was borderline, but then of course we had to think that the show will take over two years to make and then if more series are ordered…

You have to think of the future…

It’s very sad to say because he’s a very clever actor. The range of voices that he can produce is quite exceptional. He is also an extremely nice man. And then of course, Ed Bishop, who we weren’t able to use for the same reason.

Are any of the new versions of the characters based on famous faces in the way that one or two from the past were, like James Garner for Troy Tempest on Stingray?

The honest answer is, not intentionally, but the only way I can answer this is to say, would you like to think of a face and then describe it to a sculptor or in this case a character builder so that they know what the face looks like that you’re thinking of? It’s impossible, so when the directors say, “We need something that looks pretty frightening,” inevitably they say, “Somebody like so and so.” And it does emerge that sometimes there is a sort of slight likeness, but we never intentionally replicate anyone.

Is production still continuing on the series?

Yes, we’ve delivered the first 13 and as you’ve already been told it goes out at 9.30 in the morning but they are also putting the finishing touches to a deal where it will be repeated immediately at 4.30 in the afternoon. And then it will be repeated again on ITV2 at 6.30, so in the space of a week or ten days, everybody will see it. It’s also on cable.

So you’ve got your wish for a peak-time slot?

Yes. As I said it’s a family show, so obviously I’m very pleased.

There’s a hint in the opening episode that character development might be more important this time. Would you say that’s true?

Without question. Obviously, I consider the scripts a very important part of my work. But the accolades go to Phil Ford. There are other writers but Phil has written most of the shows.

Do the Angels play a more prominent role?

They do play a more prominent role because although we were using models [for the Interceptors] in the original Captain Scarlet, they were on wires. We could fly them along and we could make them bank, but we couldn’t loop the loop and we couldn’t dive them and so on. So because of the technology we’re now able to feature the Angels much more than we used to.

And do you hope more women will watch this than perhaps some of your older shows?

Over here and particularly in America the show has been previewed to hundreds of people and [the feedback] I’m getting is that a lot of women enjoy the show, which of course was the idea of updating the attitudes and so on.

Will we get to see the Mysterons this time?

The answer is we don’t see the Mysterons. And I think if we attempted to show the Mysterons it would produce a belly laugh. Because what can we do? Either we put spots all over their face like Star Trek, which we couldn’t really do, or we have eggs for their heads…

I guess that was never important to the series anyway…

It’s important to me that they’re never seen. I think that people should see them in their own mind. Then they’ll surely be pleased with what they’ve created. They’ll certainly be pleased with what we have created.

How important is merchandise to you? It must help bring funds into the show?

It helps to make the show possible in the first place because when you talk to an investor, particularly an investor that knows something about the film business, they always say, “Fine, how are we going to get our money back?” Now, if I were to say, “Well, it’ll be broadcast all over the world,” anybody who knows what they’re talking about would say, “Yes, but I mean that’s not going to raise £25 million.”

So I have to emphasise that there will be a huge amount of merchandising. Therefore I would say that merchandising makes a production possible in the first place. Without it the show would never get made.

What do you think of the Bandai range of toys for this show?

The difficulty I’m always in is, if you talk to a creator of a show and say, “What do you think of this?” the answer is, “Oh yeah, terrific, fantastic”, you know, so it’s really difficult to come across sincerely when answering these things. But Bandai have produced the most amazing range of toys I have ever seen either on my shows or on anybody else’s shows. Every toy is as accurate as it can be to the original…

Do you think you have another Tracy Island on your hands?

Oh yes, they’ve done an incredible job on Skybase. When the aircraft lands the elevator takes the aircraft below, they’ve got the control tower, they’ve got all the vehicles in the hangar… it’s a fantastic toy.

Do you have much control over the toys, the look of them, the packaging etc?

I clearly don’t have time to do everything. But there’s a guy called Dominic Lavery who designed all the vehicles and he’s now a director, but he has been involved, as has Michele [Fabian-Jones], with all the designs, checking that they’re correct. And my function is that when all the hard work is done and all the sweat and blood is over, I’m then called in and have a final look. I looked at all these toys and they don’t have one thing to criticize. In fact I’d go out of my way to say, “Fan-bloody-tastic!”

How do you stay in touch with your young audience – what they want, what they like?

I never grow up. It’s as simple as that. I mean, I have very strong mental images. I’m always imagining all the things I write about. One of the reasons I can’t sleep at night is I close my eyes and get a dozen images and I try to get rid of them.

How do you explain the enduring popularity of the classic series you made with Sylvia, Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet, Stingray and so on, because when they were shown again, on BBC2, they were enormous?

That is an easy question to answer. Long before you were born there was a director called Lewis Milestone, who at the time was one of the world’s most famous directors. He made the original All Quiet on the Western Front. And I had the good luck to work with him on a picture, much later.

At that stage I was a sound editor. And they had a royal premiere coming up, they hadn’t finished the picture and it was about two o’clock in the morning. Lewis said, “Want a cup of coffee?” Made a cup of coffee. And we stood talking and he said to me, “Gerry, I’m going to tell you how to be a success. Never, ever try to second-guess your audience. You do what you want to do, and what you like doing. If your audience is in tune with you, you’ll be a success.” And I was so impressed with what he said that this is exactly what I’ve done all the way through.

I noted what you said about the 2004 Thunderbirds film. Would you like to have a go at it and do it properly?

I can say to you that one of my burning ambitions at the moment is to remake the Thunderbirds television series.

And would that be in the same format as New Captain Scarlet?

Certainly would.

I know you’re very proud of your films, aren’t you? I was watching Doppelgänger the other day and thinking what a fantastic film that is…

Some of my films, not all my films…

Would you have liked to go more into feature film-making?

The answer has to be yes, but fate has steered me in this direction. And there are certain things about what I’m doing that are better than feature films. I mean, feature films come and go but my shows go on and on. I should be that lucky myself!

Do you think that the press and the public allowed you to branch out? Because I remember when you made UFO and Space: 1999, which I think are among your best productions, reference books say “disappointing” and quite unkind things about them, but only because they weren’t Supermarionation.

The press had a field day because “the characters are wooden”, “Gerry’s pulling the strings” and “the performances of the actors are very wooden” and so on… I can’t confess to being a fan of those series myself but I know from hearsay that people think they’re very popular – surprisingly to me.

Which TV shows do you like to watch? What do you consider good?

Certainly The Simpsons…

Have you been in The Simpsons?

No.

It’s surely only a matter of time…

And James Cameron pictures. In my mind he’s a great director and I like everything he makes.

Do you keep up with other sci-fi programmes?

I get up at 7 o’clock in the morning, I get home at half-past seven or eight o’clock at night. By the time I’ve had a meal I switch on the news to see what’s going on in the world, then I go to bed. At weekends I like to do-it-yourself in the house, gardening, walking the dog… So I don’t see that much television, but I have to say I’m very glad because my mind is pure and uncluttered.

I think the danger when you’re watching other shows is that subconsciously you can pick up ideas. In fact, when I’m talking to either writers or technicians and I say, “What you want to do is this, this and this,” they’ll say, “Oh, you mean like they do in Star Trek?” And I’ll go [exasperated voice], “No, not like they do in Star Trek!” Another one is “Oh, like Bond?” “No, not like Bond!” I try to make our show ‘our show’.

But you never were like Star Trek and I think that’s why you succeeded because you ploughed your own furrow.

Star Trek is a show that I’ve never connected up with. But having said that, I do wish I’d made it!

Your fans are very loyal, aren’t they? Do you get on well with them?

I think I’m very lucky, inasmuch as over 50 years I have only had one derogatory letter. Yes, only one.

Well that’s a good record to have isn’t it? And finally, when does Gerry Anderson close the office door for the last time?

God, I’ve been waiting for this question. And the answer is when somebody cuts my strings.

You’ve been rehearsing that one!

Yes, I have!
This extended interview appeared in the September 2018 issue of the Fanderson fanzine FAB.
New Captain Scarlet is available to stream on ITVX, as well as Stingray, Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons, UFO and Space: 1999.

Check out more of our Sci-fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what’s on. For more TV recommendations and reviews, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.